Episode 191: Money Matters: Building Trust and Teamwork in Relationships

Think about this.

There are really four areas of our lives, four areas that if we get these right or if we get them moving in the right direction, we can have healthy and fulfilling lives. So we have our spiritual health, we have our physical health, we have our relationship health, and we have our financial health.

And we're blessed today to be speaking with Adam Cole. And Adam is the couples financial coach. And today's topic will be a blend of relationship health and financial health.

So I hope that you enjoy this episode and make sure to get Adam's new book, Financial Intimacy for Couples. How to achieve clarity, teamwork, and peace of mind with your money. And you can get that by going to couplesfinancialcoach.com.

I hope that you enjoy this episode and make sure to do all the things. Make sure to like and subscribe to the podcast on the platform where you listen to it, and also make sure to share it with a friend or a coworker. All right, here we go.

Hope that you enjoy this episode. Welcome to the weekly wealth podcast. I am certified financial planner David Chudyk.

This podcast and my wealth management practice are both designed to help the mass affluent to live better lives by how they handle their money. We talk about financial strategies, prosperous mindsets, and simply how to build true wealth. So come on, and let's enjoy this journey together.

Hello, everybody. I'm excited about this week's episode of the weekly wealth podcast.

We're talking about money, which is an obvious one, but we are also talking about relationships and money. So, Adam Kol, this is actually his second time on the weekly wealth podcast, and he is the couples financial coach.

He helps couples go from financial overwhelm to fighting for clarity, teamwork, and peace of mind. I almost don't even want to go through all of his certifications and degrees.

Is it, quite frankly, reinforces the fact that I'm the second smartest guy on the podcast today? But let's see. Masters in Tax law from NYU, Duke, law degree, certified financial therapist, certified mediator. Yeah, I'm not even going to go on.

That's just too much. So, uh, cool. Well, welcome back, Adam. I'm glad to have you. How are you?

Thanks for the kind words. And, uh, it's great to be back here. And you know what?

Uh, all that, whatever that experiences, I'm just glad I'm able to use it to help my clients, because finances is a complicated thing, and it really is multidisciplinary to use that kind of buzzword. Right? And so, you know, that's. That's really the idea. Help couples navigate as much of this as they can in a positive, constructive way.

No question. So I always say that we have four things that I believe that if we get right, we have a good life. So there's obviously your physical health.

And, you know, you and I and everybody, we have some constructive, proactive things we can do or not do for our physical health. We have our spiritual health, we have our financial health, and then we have our relational health. And of course, they're all related to some extent.

Um, yeah, but I just feel like if we get all of those areas right, or at least if we kind of have, like, a proactive plan on how to get all them right, then we have a good life. But let's say you. You generate billions and millions of dollars. Um, but everybody hates you.

Cause you're jerk and you're 400 pounds overweight, you know? Yeah, maybe you're financially successful, but I don't know that we call that a successful life. Right.

So I think getting all four of those pieces, uh, right, can really, really help us. So I hit 25. I hit 25 years of marriage last June.

So if you don't believe in miracles, the fact that anybody could be married to me for 25 years is a true testament. And, yeah, so I think that money and marriage can be either a source of, like, really big stress, or it can be a way for you to come together.

So what do you think that couples can do to build trust and safety in financial discussions? Cause I think, like, as a dude, like, money's, like, my identity, partially.

Maybe that's right, maybe it's wrong, maybe it's positive, maybe it's negative.

But.

But I feel like we. We definitely, as guys, we relate our. Our self worth to our net worth. Um, and, yeah. How do you trust talking about money?

Yeah. So, I mean, first of all, thank you for the introduction. I mean, that you were just sharing, because I think you're.

You're absolutely right that not only is relational health extremely important, and all these things are related, and money is the number one stressor in relationships. Not necessarily the number one cause of divorce, but it is a top cause of divorce, and it is the number one stressor.

And so day to day money is really what is on people's minds. And you are astute to point out that net worth is our self worth kind of thing for men, because it is how we're socialized.

And regardless of even if we, let's say, believe. Oh, that's not true. Right? Or, like, I don't care. It could be a man, a woman, whatever, making the money or most of the money.

I always have my clients start by reflecting on their relationship with money, how their parents handle it, how it's gone in this relationship, past relationships. Why? Because how you're socialized and what you experienced, it affected you in a certain way. And it's. You can't like, have avoided that, right?

I mean, if you just go about your day and you think of the tv shows or the families you see around or advertisements or stories or books, it's like they tend to paint people in certain roles. And one way or the other, those can seep into our kind of consciousness about, this is what I'm supposed to do or who I should be.

And the best way to get the conversation started is just to reflect, reflect on some of those things and talk about, right, and this helps you get going without really needing to make financial decisions. Right then. Or argue about, oh, I think this thing is worth the money, or that thing is worth the money, just easing into it.

But if you're talking about your history in this way, you're going to understand each other better.

You're going to be likely to realize, oh, you know, my partner actually does want us to do well financially, and they just have whatever challenges or baggage they bring to the table because we all do that. Maybe make it hard for them to talk about this topic or they're overwhelmed by it or whatever.

So you'll understand yourself better, which will help you be better. When you're having conversations, you'll understand them better, which will help you be more patient and generous.

And I give them grace, which is really important because the best of us get triggered by the money conversation from time to time, and I'm no exception.

And yet, at the same time, like you said, David, this is an opportunity for couples to come closer together and to really build the life that they want. And I think that's something that we share is looking at money as, I mean, on a personal level, I think we both enjoy, like, geeking out about it.

But in terms of our clients, how can they have the life they want to have, right? How can they best use all the tools at their disposal, including their finances, to have that kind of life?

And that's really where I specialize, is helping couples have those conversations and then translate it to actual numbers and budgets and plans.

I like it. I like it. So a couple things that I, that I heard, number one, you said that money is a huge core cause of divorce and stress.

What you didn't say was lack of money is the current divorce. So I grew up and money was not plentiful.

And it would be easy for me to say, well, if everybody just had a little bit more money, all the problems go away. Um, and you wouldn't have any, any money stress in your marriage if there's just more money.

And that kind of makes sense on the surface, but it's absolutely not true. Or else rich people would never get divorced or argue or stress over money. And rich people stress over money a lot, even when theres abundant.

So a lot of the listeners to our podcast, we are not the minimum wage were typically high net worth or mass affluent. So were people that obviously have financial decisions to make. But where the next meal is coming from is not the issue.

Do you see that that level of financial person tends to have more or less financial stress and financial, or lack of better term arguments than the segment of society that is really struggling for the next meal that has to budget every dollar?

It's a really good question. And I mean, listen, just by nature, I don't like to make, like, empirical claims where, you know, I just really have anecdotal evidence.

I mean, they study things like this. I don't know of any studies that are able to do a really good job on the. This particular question, the way you.

You framed it, because, you know, how do you compare and contrast reliably those different kinds of financial stress?

What I can tell you is, even if you're struggling, feeling like your significant other, your spouse is your teammate, and you're trying to work on this stuff together makes a huge difference.

And I can tell you, you know, I mean, in terms of experiences with clients, clients making seven figures a year and still fighting about money or living paycheck to paycheck clients with trust funds, like serious business trust funds, like, you know, you would recognize the name of where that money all came from, kind of trust funds, and they're still stressed out about money, and they're still working with someone like me.

Um, I occasionally, uh, reference, may you rest in peace, notorious b I g really was pressuring when he spent more money, more problems, because you now have actual decisions. Right? So there's tremendous stress in not knowing where your next meal is coming from. Right.

And maybe it's a somewhat different stress to when you have money and you have to make decisions, but when you're in the former situation, it's almost like your decisions are the kind of collapse. There's only a few choices, right. When you don't have much money. You just kind of.

Kind of keep the lights on Orlando, you know, get food on the table. Whereas when you are fortunate to have disposable income, now you have a whole host of. Now, you could invest it, you could, uh, spend it.

You could put it into a business. You can do a riskier or less risky investment. You can put it towards education. You can put it towards your kid.

I mean, it's great to have those options, but inside of having those options, couples will have tension, disagreements, fighting. Um, and I'm a yemenite, big time believer that you don't have to have identical goals to work together financially as a couple.

But because there's a lot of emotions around money to start, and people don't really feel like they know how to talk about it in a human, vulnerable way, they will get, like, really clammed up, and it's like, well, we want different things. You know, he likes to spend money and get a bunch of little things. I like to save up for a big thing, and I'm like, okay, understood.

So tell me, where in your life does that actually, where does the rubber hit the road? And are those two things necessarily in? Right. Um, every situation is different.

So they might be in certain ways, but sometimes having two different preferences is completely okay. Right. And we just hold. Hold that space and carve out that space for both of them. In terms of your financial plan.

Uh, and I try to help couples realize that the obstacles that are in their mind, sometimes they're less a practical obstacle and more just like you're worried or afraid or scared or feeling distrustful. And so you mentally will, like, hang on to those things because they sound difficult, scary, impossible to navigate.

But we'll debunk that and then also help.

You know, I helped couples with whatever it was that made them feel nervous, scared, worried, fearful in the first place, so that you can get down to the business of building the life you want to have and having more teamwork and peace of mind around your.

Yeah, no, I like it.

And if you listen to the weekly wealth podcast every week, I say that I believe that how we handle our money should positively impact our lives and the lives of those around us. And that's what I believe money can do for us. Or more specifically, not necessarily money, but how we handle buddy, um, can give us a better life.

And I think it's something that we need to be really, really purposeful about in all areas of our lives.

So one example is we just went through the hurricane here, and there are some people and, you know, losing a freezer full of refrigerator bull food is a major catastrophe. A couple hundred dollars, you know, gone, puts them in a financial hole. There are other people who. They don't even notice that.

A couple hundred dollars, you know, the power was out for a few for a week, and food spoiled. And so, you know, just in that one small way, you know, having that emergency fund takes away the stress when there is an emergency.

So it's important to have margin in our lives. So let's talk a little bit about margin.

I think that most couples, or maybe this is a stereotype and tell me if I'm wrong, but typically, is it true that there's a spender and a saver in every relationship? And. And how do you kind of define, you know, spending is good, saving is good.

But how do you determine how much spending and how much saving is good for a specific relationship? Cause you gotta enjoy the money, right. But you also can't spend it all.

Yeah. Um, it's actually a really insightful question. And the answer is, perhaps it's what you make of, like, you know, am I a spender?

Well, that's, in part, may be relative to my significant other. It may also be relative to my level of financial anxiety or our particular situation.

You know, I'll sometimes stroke with clients and say, they say, oh, you know, yeah, we spent too much money and we were wasteful or whatever. Well, if you were a Kardashian, it wouldn't be a problem. Right. It's just that it maybe doesn't fit with where you're at in your life at this moment.

So let's see what we can do about that. It is true that a lot of times there is someone who could be probably fairly cast as the spender and the saver.

But I really do think a lot of that is in terms of our perception.

And again, because money is something that we can feel uncomfortable talking about and unsure how to talk about, that is a time where labels identities like spender or saver, they become very appealing. Right.

And so I love them because I think they help people get a foothold into, like, understanding how they relate to money and understanding how their partner relates to money. And like you said, seeing that there's good aspects and potential challenges with both of those things.

But I think, I mean, my work, even in the book that I've just written, is, like, about getting really into you as an individual and what makes you tick. And if you do like to spend more money than your partner likes to spend, well, why is that right?

Because it's usually not that people don't enjoy things. It's usually that they have competing interests, right.

Or competing influences or mindsets or points of view about how they should be, how things, how finances should be.

And the more you can understand each other's point of view in a kind of nuanced way, rather than just like with a label, that's going to help you not only connect emotionally, the more information you have, as long as it's good information, is going to help you make better decisions. So it's like if I'm a spender, because I just like really food and eating it in fine restaurants is like my favorite thing.

And for you, that feels like that makes me a spender because that always felt like, like, say, a luxury to you.

That's a very different situation than if I'm a spender, because I have a personality where I like to, let's say, gamble on sports or other things where you're likely not to win in the long run. Right.

So these would be very different conversations about how we might handle and in what circumstances are we comfortable allocating more or less of our money towards certain activities. Right. Um, so bottom line is, I think you're right that there's often people who have at least relative to each other, because people are different.

So what? There will be like a relative spender and a relative saver, but that's a good thing.

If you can understand each other at a more kind of like, personal and nuanced way about it, then you'll be able to understand them and make a better plan and frankly, leverage their strengths. I mean, truthfully, the savers are usually coming with financial anxiety and they struggle and forget to enjoy life.

And so the spender helps them see the awesome things there are to experience.

Or even, let's say, something like the long term value of purchasing a better product upfront that will last longer and give you better results or whatever. Right?

And the spender certainly has something to learn from the saver in terms of priorities, advertising and patience, and let's say, not having to pay interest to the bank if you can help it, for example.

And so that's really the goal, is to get the other stuff out of the way so that the couple's natural gifts and their natural connection to each other can really shine through.

Yeah. And get, and get. I like to try to get money out of the way, you know, try to get money out of the way as being a limiting factor.

And if you could deal with, you know, some of the money stresses and some of the money conflicts that you're having in marriage, then, then you can work towards having a very, very prosperous marriage in every way. I always say that nobody drifts to excellence and greatness in any part of their lives. So nobody gets 50 pounds overweight from one bad meal.

You get 50 pounds overweight from several years of kind of snacking too much. Nobody drifts to having a great marriage. So we have to be purposeful. So let's talk about being purposeful.

Let's say that you have, you have of a couple and they just constantly kind of had this money friction. Like, one has one money philosophy, the other one has another.

And I'm not even saying either of the philosophies are bad because like you said, that's relative, but they conflict with each other.

So what are some ways that couples can have a disarming conversation about money to start that process of understanding each other and creating a plan and a money lifestyle that works for them.

Yeah.

So saying, hey, you need to stop spending all of our money or else we're going to be homeless. Probably not a good way to start it.

Even if it's true, probably not a good way to start.

Okay.

Yeah. So a couple of thoughts. Right. First is that you're right. These are extremely important conversations to have, and they're not easy.

And the particulars of the conversation will depend on the particulars of your life and what feels like a different philosophy. It doesn't necessarily have to be a problem. Right.

But if it's hard to talk about money in any way, shape or form, that will be a challenge, if not already at some point. Right. And there can also be, like, feelings under the surface, anxiety or frustration or resentment that can build. And we got to be careful of that.

So how do we get engaged in the conversation? Well, the easiest thing to do is invite your partner to have a conversation. Have you tried that? If you have. Okay, we'll go there in a second.

If you haven't, give it a shot.

And truthfully, we could go deep and try and understand what happened in your life or growing up or whatever that has you feel scared or anxious about bringing that up with your partner. But part of life and part of being an adult is when you just feel the fear and do it anyway and just, just bring it up. Right.

Even though there's a concern you might get shut down. Being able to confront that fear is a huge aspect of personal growth and allowing your relationship to prosper.

But let's say you've brought it up and it hasn't really gone well. Okay, well, I'll invite you to a couple of new ways to think about. First way would be in terms of kind of a goal oriented approach.

Meaning, why is it even important for you to talk about money with your partner? Right. What kinds of things do you think you guys could achieve if you were able to talk about this and make a plan and work together?

That's one approach, because that sounds a lot nicer than what you were saying. Well, if you don't stop spending, that we're going to end up homeless is like, hey, you know what? I've always really wanted to have my own home.

And I think if we get on the same page, like, figure out our finances, we can actually feel like we can maybe get there sooner than we think. Oh, I'd love to sit down and talk with you. Right. You know? You down for that? Let's carve out some time.

Another approach would be to look at your own kind of role in things, getting to where they are, right. To this place of where maybe communication is not as common and fruitful as you'd like it to be.

And anytime that happens, David, there's always a role for each person to play. Right, because you say, oh, well, but I try to bring it up and my partner always avoids it. And they say, no, no, no, not now.

Okay, yeah, don't get me wrong, that's tough, right? I. But you also let them get away with that. Right? You didn't draw a line in the sand.

And presumably, you know, we're talking obviously about healthy partnerships, not situations of abuse. This is, that's a different ball of wax.

But, you know, like, people are free to stay or go, and they're free to be like, this is a conversation that has to happen. Right? So maybe you haven't really stood for having that conversation, right.

Or maybe you realize that you've been feeling anxious about money and you didn't express it, and so you started to feel, like, mad at your part. And that anger has been showing up.

And how you communicate with them, whether about money or other aspects, that's actually not a bad thing because it gives you an opening to say, you know what, I'm thinking a lot about finances and how I've been handling them. And I just want to say, like, I realized that thing, I can be kind of tough on you sometimes.

And, I mean, it's because I feel anxious, just generally about money, but, you know, I haven't really brought it up to you. I've just been treating you kind of different, which, you know, is not cool. So I'm sorry. Right.

And you can kind of get things going that way where you're actually being honest about it. Right. Like, authentic about whatever role you may have played.

And that can often also disarm your significant other, put them at ease, remind them that you're not looking for a fight, and that you two are on the same team ultimately with this. And you both do want to have more ease and peace of mind in life in general, including your finances. I mean, who doesn't want that, right?

Uh, so that can also be a really powerful way to just, like, kind of break the ice, melt the ice, whatever you want to call it, and, um, get things started. Right. So it's like, again, if you haven't tried, maybe you just feel the fear, do it anyway, and just kind of say it pretty straightforward forward.

If you have tried and it hasn't worked, then you can maybe look to, like, say, what's your role in this situation?

And maybe something you can take responsibility for, acknowledge, apologize for, to break the ice, and could be both or either to look at kind of from that kind of goals based positive, like, what do I want to achieve? Right? Yeah.

Do I want to win or do I want a successful outcome? And sometimes winning an argument is not the successful outcome. Sometimes that doesn't lead to the long term result that we want.

Right.

And it's like, hopefully you are with and chose to be with this person because you care about them, you enjoy them, you want to build a life with them. Well, reminding them of that usually feels really good to hear.

So it's like, I've been thinking about some stuff, and I'm thinking about our finances and just, like, how much I love you and how we've wanted to build an amazing life together. And, you know, I think that we're doing great in a lot of ways, but I think money is one way where we can really level up and have a better life.

Like, kind of tough to argue with that.

That was super disarming, too. That that was not blaming. That was just a super. And that that would be a tough. For that conversation. To not short out well would be tough.

I mean, I think those are some really, really good words that you use there that I think could start a conversation really, really well, especially if there's stress and some emotion behind it. So I appreciate that. So tell me about your book. This is your first book. Let's hear about it.

And what made you want to take that plunge and write a book.

Yeah, it is my first book and I'm very excited about it.

And honestly, it just fit in really well with what I'm about and my mission, which, you know, I wanted to not only have another touch point with people out there who can find out about me and then engage with me and my work and hopefully improve their relationship and their finances, but also a way to make it more accessible.

Certainly the book costs less than my private coaching does, and that's a really important and nice thing for me because I care about this topic and this issue globally.

But just in the nature of running a business and taking care of myself and my family and all that, there's certain things that are more or less easy to handle. And the book becomes a way that I really feel like I can offer this information to more people regardless of where they're at in life financially.

And, you know, it's written with couples in mind, but even if you're not married yet or you're considering it or you're trying to get yourself into a healthier spot so that you're, when you do go out there and date and look for someone to spend your life with, that you're able to, like, feel confident about this stuff.

I mean, there's tons of valuable stuff in there, conversations to have, suggestions to ponder, questions to ask yourself, questions to ask youre partner so that you can be more efficient with your money in terms of getting the benefits you want and so that you can have a better relationship. You know, I sometimes say it is like thriving financially and in your relationship. Like, those two things shouldn't be in conflict.

In fact, it's a really great way for you to build memories and trust and joy together is not only just in the, let's say, going on the trip to Italy, but also just like dreaming together, deciding Italy is the next trip you want to take and then figuring out what would you want to do in Italy. Yeah, let's get a sense. Yeah.

The whole part of the experience.

Right. And then what do we got to do to get there, you know? Okay, it's going to cost this much. Oh, yeah. But you know what?

I'm going to feel anxious unless we've got that credit card debt paid down. Okay, how do we get there, right.

If there's so much elaboration and commitment that it just creates and speaks to it and engages with, and that's really the good stuff in relationships. I mean, or at least that is good stuff in relationships.

I want to say the, there's plenty of different things, but it just kind of happens naturally once you're working together and trying to achieve your goals. Right. You get a lot of those ways of engaging and connecting and working as a team, and you don't even really have to force it much.

Yeah, no, that's beautiful. So somebody who's listening and they're thinking, you know what I mean?

There is a little bit of financial stress, a little bit of financial conflict in my marriage and my relationship. I like what this Adam guy is talking about. How can they find you? What are some of the programs you have out there?

And then tell us the name of the book and where they can get it after it's released.

Thank you for the kind of words and for the opportunity. And really, wherever you are at, there's always an opportunity for growth.

Now, I'm also an advocate for being intentional and realistic with your time.

So, you know, if you're somebody who's kicking butt financially and you and your spouse are like, or partner really on the same team, on the same page, and it's like, you know, you're operating at, like 99% capacity, it's okay, right? Like, awesome. If that's getting you where you want to get to. Beautiful. Right? I'm here, like, okay.

For the folks where they're not really quite at that point where it is a topic that's causing tension or they're not able to get the most for the money that they work so hard to earn or. Right. It's like creating tension in their relationship, then. Okay, let's dig in.

And the best place to find everything in terms of me, my work, my content is always on my website, which is couplesfinancialcoach.com. and if you go there and you do couplesfinancialcoach.com book interest. So book like b o k dash interest int e r e s t.

Then that is the best way to find out how to download this book for free. There will be some opportunities in the first couple of months after it launches to get a free electronic copy.

And if you'd like to be notified, then you can sign up for the list there. So that's the best way to get connected about the book. Otherwise it'll be on Amazon. And, you know, I'm on the major social media platforms.

And usually it's just couples financial coach or the couples financial coach. So Instagram is couples financial coach, shows, Facebook, YouTube is the couples financial coach.

Have a podcast that's not active at the moment but had put out about 65 or so episodes, and they're all focused on finances and life and relationships and, you know, some amazing guests with some really thoughtful reflections around that, including how to deal with finances in your current relationship when they weren't so healthy in your past relationship. And that left, you know, sometimes can really leave a mark. So that's what I'm all about, is helping people navigate this conversation.

Beautiful stuff. Beautiful stuff. Well, Adam, I appreciate, you know, what you're doing for the world.

I know that it's, it's important for us to have good relationships. And I know that money, money can be a large, large obstacle in how we handle our money. So you're doing great work.

So I hope that everybody will go out and check out your resources and just do the work. Do the work with your spouse. If you need help, get help. If you don't need help, and if you just need to have some conversations, do that. But.

But take a step and let's make sure that we are all making the world a better place by how we handle our money. So until next episode, I wish everybody a blessed week. Thanks, Adam.

Thank you, David.

Investment advice offered through parallel financial and SEC registered investment advisor able to conduct advisory business in states where it is registered or exempt or excluded from registration. Contents contained herein Orlando.

For informational purposes only and should not be construed as an offer or solicitation for investment advice or for the purchase or sale of any security, insurance or other investment product.